Yes, I know I am speaking through a sad-clouded mind, but I cannot decide how I feel about the judging methods at our Wasatch Debate League Speech and Debate tournaments. I mean, 98% of the judges are inexperienced parents. The last 2% are older students who are also friends or siblings with the people competing. There is no real way for them to judge according to only their speech, presentation, topic, emotion (or lack of), when they have personal biases to the students somehow. I know, everyone is biased to some degree, but you are particularly biased when you know someone personally. This can be either harmful or beneficial to the students chances of placing in their event.
No, I am not just saying this because I didn't place very high :) I have been thinking about this for a long time, even back when I got really good places. There has got to be a better, more accurate method of determining the scores! Some ideas:
1- Martineau could hire professional judges in no way tied to any of the competitors. Benefits to this would be: less biases toward specific students, They would be trained and actually know what to look for, they would be more professional and give more accurate scores. Losses: This would cost a LOT more money than our tuition covers. also, they would not be able to use the same judges twice, because they would have biases from the last tournament.
2- We could have multiple judges in each room. This would make it so there was not just one mindset scoring the speeches, therefore more likely to give an accurate score. Losses: don't have enough people.
3- Everyone who judges could have training sometime before. They would be trained on: What to look for pertaining presentation, speaking skills, and other notable things, how to accurately keep time (which hasn't been a problem, but it never hurts to make sure), and how to tell if the student has spent much time on his/her speech/case/topic/etc. Losses: lots of time and money. and forethought.
That's all I got, any ideas people? Anyone else feel the same way as I do?
Just for clarification:
ReplyDeleteThe judges are trained in the beginning of each tournament concerning how to judge. (Including each of the points you brought up.
also,
The final, end-of-the-year tournament is the only one really worth basing your true ability off of. Why?
1. We are each judged by multiple judges each round. Not just one each round.
2. We have more rounds. The latter of which are solely between the thus-far winners.
The tournaments prior to the final one are primarily to improve your performance ability, and not to create a set and final judgement of it.
And just as a note: All judges will judge at least partly based from bias. A poor speaker/debater will fight against that bias. A good speaker/debater will turn that bias towards his/herself. A remarkable speaker/debater will win the judges favor regardless of any bias while still turning any and all bias towards his/herself.
:)
I don't want to seem argumentative, but I have spoken with many people who have judged for the tournaments, and they say they do tell you what to look for, but not very clarified, and it isn't really adequate to judge people correctly. Of course, I am not dissing on our judges, I am sure they are very good people, with good intentions, and don't choose the winner based on personal preference of people in any sort. I am just saying experience makes a HUGE difference. People who have been professionally trained will most likely give more accurate scores.
ReplyDeleteIt is true, that the last tournament is the only one that really matters. And that is why I suggested what I did, about the multiple judges. This is going to sound very prideful (and I didn't realize this until just now, trust me) but the final tournament is the only time I have ever gotten into the top 2 places. I am not saying it is better because they liked mine more at that time then at other times, not in the least, but I do believe they are better equipped to judge with multiple people.
Thank you so much for your comments Carson, I'm glad that you are reading and thinking about my posts. I am glad I am not the only one thinking about this topic. :)
From a judges point of view- and maybe I can be considered professional since I have been judging for Sam almost every tournament in the last 3 years- :) or not-
ReplyDeleteA - I rarely get to judge people I know, Sam goes to a lot of trouble to keep it as fair as possible, which means I usually get to spend all tournament judging kids I don't know and love- (yet) - and miss seeing my kids a lot of the time.
B- You probably have heard this from Sam, I have heard him tell us many times he wants us to judge as if we were normal everyday people, as this is who YOU will be conversing, debating and convincing in everyday life.
C- As a judge, there are times when you have to choose between absolutely phenomenal speeches, where the difference in place is a hairs breadth away from each other. We do analyze- who had the most facts, did the most research, sometimes it really comes down to who moved me the most, who didn't stumble over their words as much, we have to look that closely, and it is hard.
The tournament you are talking about I had to judge a few people I had never met and hadn't heard before and several people I knew pretty well, because I accidently went to the wrong room, and had gotten started, so we kept it that way. Someone I didn't know just did the best job, but it was extremely close, agonizing decisions to make in a short amount of time. Give us some credit for doing the best we can. I am as impartial as I can be, and even though I may like some kids better because I know them a little bit, or liked their attitude better, or what their subject is, or whatever, I rank the ones who did the best job all around the best. Period. That's the way I want my kids treated. I did judge the category you were in a few times this tournament, you had extremely stiff competition. You were among the best of the best, be proud!
D- As a parent, and judge, I have not always agreed with the results, sometimes I will judge someone I think is amazing, and they don't place, and I wonder why, and sometimes the reverse, maybe I saw someone that didn't do their best in front of me, but maybe they pulled it together later, or just didn't have that much competition in that particular category that day. When you are judging so many great kids, the variables are many, and it's not a perfect system. But I think it's as good as they can make it. As for professional judges being biased from previous tournaments- I don't know, they are most likely sleep deprived busy adults like your parents who don't remember one tournament from the next. :) It has never occurred to me to think about what the kid did last time.
E- Sometimes my daughter has beaten someone that placed and she didn't, and it was confusing, but it depends on who goes against whom, etc. It's been a growing experience for both of us to learn how to handle the imperfectness of the system, or the variables we don't see besides the specific rounds we were in.
F- Every time I go to a tournament I come away with my faith in humanity reignited. I love and adore all of you, you are unique and amazing each in your own way, and God Bless you as you try your hardest, and learn skills that will serve you well in your own specially appointed mission.
G- and in conclusion, I think the sheer number of talented speakers means many who could easily be #1 could as easily be #6 or #10 because there are just so many great speakers, and very little difference in the quality. As long as you personally did better this time, than last, gave it your all, did the best with what you have, you should be darn proud of yourself!! I have not seen many speeches you have given, but having you speak in our Edison class was a privilege and I am very proud of you! Keep up the great work!! Love you!
Thanks Melissa! That is definitely good insight. I have had a bit more clarification over the past bit of time, and appreciate your thoughts.
ReplyDelete